Mandarin training and spawning log

[newfishy]

I have had several people, in response to my post looking for a home for my homicidal male Target (a/k/a Spotted) Mandarin, call me concerning how it is that I seem to have "confirmed eating" mandarins, and how is it that I can get a half starved one to eat - and I keep them in (gasp!) 10g tanks with little live rock! (incidentally, I have changed my policy at this point looking for confirmed eating mandarins because there are only so many surfaces left for training tanks along with the current breeders, pod tanks, brine tanks, rotifer tanks and algae propations stations. The hubby WILL leave if he comes home to 1 more new setup!) I currently have 2 green pairs, 3 target pairs, and 2 scooter pairs housed separately from my 110 and my 29g tanks. that is ALOT of tanks! I still need to pair off a male scooter and a female green mandarin before I consider myself stocked)

Let's face it folks, there aren't many, or any in this state, tank raised mandarins, green or target mandarins, and wild caught critters rarely survive in captivity except in very large established aquariums. So, since the LFS's continually get these fish in, and none can tell you any more than "they need live food to survive", I am hoping my experiences will help more of these critters survive.

I have gotten 7 out of 10 half dead mandarins, and 100% of scooters to survive and thrive using this setup: 10g tank, 3 or 4 pieces of live rock, total weight maybe 4 or 5 pounds, 7 pounds live sand, a cascade 500 filter (rated to 30 g), a couple pieces of macroalgae, and lite. I put a foam block on the inlet of the filter (where the water is sucked out of the tank). There are no other filtration or water movement devices. I also have 3 blue legged hermits, 4 nerite snails and 2 nassarius snails in the tanks to clean up.

My tanks are painted black on 3 sides and the bottom for breeding purposes. The first 3 mandarins I tried, passed away - on clear, unpainted tanks. i don't know if the painting has anything to do with it, but the following 7 mandarins all learned to eat frozen - the latest being a target female that was in worse condition than I have ever seen. I honestly thought when i took her that I was giving her a quiet place to die.

The rational behind painting the tank is to give the breeding pair a sense of security. Only the front of the tank is viewable from the inside or out. Given that a mandarin previously free on the reef was one day spear gunned (look it up folks, this is the truth), then stuck in a bag and travelled half way around the world, then put on display in a store, I have to think a quiet, painted tank HAS to have a positive effect.

Let's be honest here, some of us buy mandarins out of pity, so we aren't as set up as we should be when we bring them home. While the next step should be done BEFORE you bring a mandarin home, it can be done after, as long as you do it that same day:

Buy a bottle of tigger (tiger?) pods. After the lites go out the first nite, dump the entire bottle in. The pods will settle in the rocks and in the foam pad of the filter inlet. I go with the double density 2000-4000 bottle I think it is Reed that sells them. In the north valley, Aquatouch and Pet safari sells this particular quantify. If you go with the smaller quantity bottle, get a couple.

Even a weak mandarin can find pods in this situation, and after a couple of days, you will see them actively hunting. Also, being the only fish in the tank, there is no one to harrass the mandarin. However, pods are expensive, so the point is to convert the mandarin to frozen. So, the starter frozen food training kit is as follows:

Cyclopese
Masagi (flying fish eggs available at Whole Foods (green mandarins only, targets are too small for this)
Ova (I have only seen this available at Top of the Reef)
Frozen Baby Brine
Baby food jar

On the second day after your mandarin has arrived, put a chunk of cyclops in a baby food jar and fill it with aquarium water. let it sit until most of the cyclops sinks to the bottom. Put the jar in the tank in one of the front corners, laying on its side, with the open end facing out. Some of the food will drift out, but that is ok. Also, the crabs and nassarius will occasionally invade the jar. Totally by accident, your mandarin may eat some of the food that has drifted out and settled on the rock or sand. Again, totally by accident, said mandarin will find the jar. He may not eat from it right away, but he will eventually put 2 and 2 together and realize jar = food he finds on the rock and sand, but easier to get to. Leave the morning feeding in all day so the fish gets used to it. Remove, clean, refill and replace the jar twice a day. remove it before the lites go out (you want your cleanup crew to clean the tank, not the jar)

In the next day or 2 add ova to the jar with cyclops. By the end of the first week, you should notice the critter going to the jar more often, even if it is empty. Also, you will notice your pod population is declining. Don't be so quick to add more pods! instead, start decreasing the amount of cyclops in the jar, and increasing the ova. Also at this time, start adding masagi (green mandarins only) and baby brine. Spend some time every day watching your mandarin eat from the jar to see what he prefers to eat and put more of that in than the other items.

Week 2: If your mandarin is not eating well from the jar at this point, just keep doing what you are doing. If he is eating, start adding bloodworms, adult brine and mysis in small portions ALONG WITH what you were already feeding. You will more than likely need to cut these into smaller pieces since your mandarin is not used to larger food items yet. Evenutually you won't have to cut the food, but wait until your mandarin is eating well before you stop. Again, watch your mandarin to see what he eats. Increase the proportion of the preferred foods, but don't remove the ones he doesn't eat as much of.

Week 3 - by this time all my mandarins are eating from the jar. At this time, I put 1 favorite food mix in in the morning, and a different food mix in at nite, and I start adding Formula 1 pellets. You DON"T want a mandarin that will only eat one thing.... The pellets are the easiest, cleanest thing to feed, but I will confess, some of my mandarins STILL won't touch them. But I can hope....

watch your mandarin often and always. It may take a month before you notice weight gain. As long as you see them eating, you are winning the battle.

Something of note to understand about the 2 different mandarins:

Targets, once they start eating, are little missle seeking vacume cleaners. You do not want to be between Spot, one of my males, and a blood worm floating by (he is currently in a 29 with a scooter and 6 bangaiis). A target will chase food, so once you have them trained to non-live food, you don't need the jar anymore. They can hold their own in a tank with other fish.

A green needs to see a food particle, study it, say grace, meditate on it, and only then, grab it. For this reason, to make sure your green is getting enough to eat, you really should jar feed every day, forever. If you have the proverbial very large tank with lots of live rock, you probably don't need to do this since some food particles will get stuck in the rock to be eaten during a mandarin hunting foray, and you will have the safety net of knowing that IF your pod population drops in the larger tank, your mandarin will still find food. But even then, it is important to make sure you know that your mandarin will eat frozen before you put them into the large tank.

I have just added a previously trained male target (Spot, the homocidal who recently had respect for females beaten into him by a green mandarin female who had had enough of his aggression) to a 10g with a half starved, and now trained female target. Both b-lined it to the jar when I put it in at their introduction (and Spot, who previously tried to kill Dottie, the female - is now afraid of her!). Depending on how they interact, i may have to feed with 2 jars, but even then, I have yet another pair, fat and sassy, eating well, in a 10g tank - with very little live rock.

[patrick_rogn]

That's all really good to know I have a pair of greens in my 110 that I got both eatting frozen.

[bushwacker]

It is very hard to get them to eat frozen food. If you can you are one of the very lucking ones. Your 10gal tank will not support him. He has most likely eaten all of his available food and that is why he is starving. They mostly will only eat live stuff like copods. When I had a 55 gal tank with 80lb of live rock I could not keep them for more then ~6month before they starved. I now have one in my 250gal with 300lb of live rock and a 60 gal sump/ refugium where I am able to grow all the criters need to keep him fat and happy. I have had him for 1 1/2 years.

[SPCLMANAGE]

Originally Posted by bushwacker

It is very hard to get them to eat frozen food. If you can you are one of the very lucking ones. Your 10gal tank will not support him. He has most likely eaten all of his available food and that is why he is starving. They mostly will only eat live stuff like copods. When I had a 55 gal tank with 80lb of live rock I could not keep them for more then ~6month before they starved. I now have one in my 250gal with 300lb of live rock and a 60 gal sump/ refugium where I am able to grow all the criters need to keep him fat and happy. I have had him for 1 1/2 years.

She has some sort of sytem set-up that seems to be working very well. She takes in sick ones and teaches them to eat frozen. I don't think 10 gallon tanks are permanant homes.